If you take the definition of employer branding literally, you might be inclined to make employer brands for all the various teams, offices and roles within your company. I mean, that’s how you’re going to explain “what it’s like to work here” with any kind of granularity and specificity.

But what if you let go of the guide rail of “specificity” and focused on creating emotions in the prospects to attract them? And then, what if instead of telling specific stories, you talked about what it feels like to work there instead?

Show notes:
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Many times I’ve said that anybody who tries to help you with your employer brand or sell you some sort of employer brand, setup, solution, product service, whatever you want to call it, consultancy, who cares? Anybody who tries to sell you it without defining it is clearly just trying to grab you by the ankles and shake all the money falls out of your pockets. I think that’s rude. I think the fact that we haven’t kind of nail down a shared collective sense of what the employer brand is and what it means really makes the industry ripe for us car salesman like tactics, let me put it that way. And in fact, I was talking to Glassdoor the other day because we They were chatting. And I said, you know that you spent so much time and money trying to convince everybody that Glassdoor ratings equals employer brand and they not. And they said, yeah, we absolutely did. And they’re pivoting away because they realized that that no longer comes anywhere close to flying anymore, which is great, I guess.

I have friends at Glassdoor. I have issues with Glassdoor in that sense that they’re trying to pretend to be you know, you have employer brand problems. Glassdoor is the answer and Twitch, I would say, oh, maybe not anywho. But you have to define what we mean by employer brand before you start selling services and product and products and solutions and all that good stuff. And usually this the definition that I go with is one that I’ve heard other people use, I don’t think I’ve invented it out of whole cloth. I have my own spin on I have my own play on it, but I do like to define it upfront, whether it’s a presentation or a webinar or a sales pitch or whatever it is. Here’s what employer branding is. It is the shared collective, individual perceptions and emotions. tations of what it’s like to work at a company, remember, that is each individual human being has their own perceptions. And when you aggregate it together, you have it Oh, this is what’s called employer brand. And that employer brand comes from that perception comes from any number of experiences and touchpoints and communication points and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And that is a solid definition of employer brand. But there’s always a but oh, there’s always a button. But there’s more to it than that isn’t there because when you start to think about your employer brand, you start to very quickly realize that you are going to be in a lot of pain and a lot of hurt. If you were trying to explain to a general population, what it’s like to work there. Let’s say it’s a hospital. Are you telling me what it’s like to work there as a doctor red versus what it’s like there to work as an orderly versus what it’s like to work there as a nurse are the same? No, of course not. It would be a fool to suggest that. So we have a bit of a problem. Unless you’re trying to create 7000, employer brands, or you know, however many different kind of departments and offices and locations and jobs you have, which has been a strategy I’ve seen play out. I’m not saying it’s wrong, I’m just saying it’s a strategy. And if you want to go for it, go for it. But I might have a different, different take on it. And it’s surprising to me, it’s one of those ideas. I was reading a book and I kind of went Hmm, what about that, and the more I mold on it, the more I wanted to talk about it. So that’s what we’re going to talk about a better potential definition, or a way of describing what employer brand is right after this.

Audio Intro

Hey, how you doing? I’m James Ellis, recorded live from Chicago as per usual, housekeeping go sign up for the newsletter. I think in the next week or two. We’re gonna crack 1000 subscribers. I’m super pumped for that. I haven’t written this week’s yet. I am a little behind. I will be doing that just a trifle. I just got back from a couple of days off. So the email inbox is looming on we’re just gonna put that right there. I thought I tried to record the podcast in advance to make sure I kind of had clear decks when I walked back in I hated it. So I’m recording a whole different thing. So here we are.

Otherwise, yeah. The Ask me anything office hours. Oh my goodness, thank you so much all for, for jumping in and grabbing time having amazing conversations. If you have questions if you have challenges, if you’d like me to just be a second set eyeballs, your employer brand type questions, I’m right here, all you have to do is click on the link in the show notes and schedule your 15 minutes and remember there your 15 minutes. So we’ll talk about whatever you want. You don’t have to listen to me. Anyhow.

So let’s talk about that definition. So the thing that is missing from that definition and remember one more time that definition is the in the aggregated individual perceptions of what it’s like to work there based on any number of touch points and experiences is your employer brand and that’s a lot of polished language and you see how quickly rolls off the tongue. It’s almost like I’ve said it 1000 times, by the way, I probably have great and it’s fine. The trick is it presumes a level of rationality and it presumes a level of higher level thinking that as if all human beings are rational, right? If you meet an economist they all say okay, all people are rational and they all work based on rational evidence and that therefore you can predict what people do and then of course, you actually meet people and you go, “Oh, that’s not happening.”

So it’s not so much people aren’t rational. It’s just people don’t always realize when they’re not being rational. And why do their they not being rational? Well, if you look at the biology, you’ve got the big old frontal lobe ie the personality the brain, the higher level thinking the stuff that does math and stuff that decides who to vote for the stuff that you know that figures out how to de bug your problem with your router, the the, the big stuff, right taxes and dry buying a car and all the heavy duty lifting stuff like work right is all in the frontal lobe. It’s systems and processes and and decision making and all that good stuff. And behind that is the is the camera where there’s Three stacks so but anyway the one is kind of an emotional one is the fight or flight right the the lizard brain right the some people call it the monkey brain I guess you know that your your your your spooked and sparked and because all impulses and all information flows through the brain almost in an evolutionary fashion meaning you feel it start with that lizard brain and then you hit the monkey brain and then you hit the people brain.

If the lizard brain or the monkey brain gets stuck on something and freaks out, it never actually gets up to the higher level thinking you don’t even realize that you’re not using your rational part of your brain. Funny thing about the brain is the brain hates the fact that you made decisions without being rational for whatever reason. It likes to think it’s very rational. As Tom Robbins once said, not Tom Peters and not Tom Jones and not Tony Robbins. Tom Robbins who wrote woodpecker blues is that what I’m doing even though even Cowgirls get the blues I think that’s the book goes. You know how your brain is the smartest organ in your body smartest thing in your body. Who told you that your brain Yeah. That’s, you know, that’s a that’s a non biased narrator anyway, so you don’t even realize that you’re not be making rational decisions your brain will actually go back and apply and assign rational explanations as to why you wanted that thing. It’s really hilarious they have all sorts of experiments that show that But anyway, the thing that’s in the middle there is that monkey brain that emotional brain where the emotions lie emotions are not higher level stuff.

We’re not talking about fight or flight we’re talking about happy sad You know, yes, there’s some threatening stuff in there but it is some fear but it’s also some desire what needs to be love need to be feel accepted all your standard Mazda hierarchy type stuff, your emotion stuff, changes perception, right? If you are feeling good, and you’re having a good day and you’re giving news you will deal with that news differently than if you’re feeling bad. Just how you’re feeling tempers and colors, the news as it travels into your higher level thinking brain where you decide what to do with it. Why does any of this stuff matter? Well, because if you say your employer brand is what people think it must be like to work there. What’s below that? So what they think it’s hard fun, simple, easy, collaborative, dynamic, creative ply. Apply your adjective at will. They think it’s that So what? right if I think that working at your company is boring, so what? Maybe I like boring. What do I feel about boring? How do I react? How do I react to boring? Is there a way I could say, You know what? That job seems boring. But it affords me certain opportunities, like maybe it gives me more free time. Maybe it gives me time to work on some other project while I’m at work, right? It allows me to decide what I want to do and that emotional stuff is what makes me feel good about if you can say look, yeah, sure the job is boring.

But think of all There’s good stuff you’ll be able to do. Think of all the free time you’ll have Think of all the time you’ll spend with your family. Think of all the extra side hustle projects. Hey, James, you’re a podcaster you could podcast more episodes. I’m sorry. Don’t worry, everybody. I won’t podcast more ever. I’m just I’ve hit my limit. Thanks. Don’t worry, it’s okay. This is as much as I’m gonna do. You know, there’s, you know, you use the emotions to say, yeah, it’s boring, but this is how it boring could make you feel. And that’s really where I think we have an open opportunity from an employer brand standpoint to leverage emotions. It’s not so much that what do you want to make somebody feel, but maybe you spin it and say, What does it feel like to work here? It’s exciting. People are happy. People are serious. People are celebrated. People are steady. People are excited people are pushing the boundaries. People are applauding each other people are applauding themselves. What does it feel like to work here and I think that is Where the real opportunity for your employer brand is, if you are trying to differentiate your company against any other company, look, there’s a set of words that you can use to describe it.

And chances are your competition is using half of them already. You’re not special because you’re dynamic, you’re not special because you’re making an impact are not special, because you are very open to DNI ideas or your commitment to DNI or social responsibility or what purpose or what have you. That doesn’t make you special. Every company thinks they’re making an impact every company thinks they’re being, you know, trying to do some level of good even at Red Cross thinks is trying to do some level of good. Goldman Sachs thinks is trying to do some level of good. Are they both right? Well, it depends on how you define good and it depends on how you look at them, but they both can make a case and the fact that they both want to make a case suggests the perhaps saying that you want to do good is not enough. Because that’s where the real failure of employer branding is, is that we Don’t push things far enough. We because we’re trying to capture a description of what it’s like to work here because we are working within the political boundaries and compromises that what this is what leader will allow us to the leadership will allow us to say as feels good about saying and leadership doesn’t get an employer brand and so they never want to say anything negative even though frankly saying something negative is actually better than being 100% positive, because we all know no one believes 100% positivity

Anywho that there’s so much opportunity if you start to use feeling language and feeling perception inside your employer brand, when the hell is any that mean? Okay, that’s a great question. What the hell isn’t it? I mean, sometimes I have to stop myself and say, James, what the hell does any of that mean? And here I here’s how I answer that. The answer is, when you say you are x when you say you make an impact, great on him for whom by whom, how quickly Slowly, via process via innovation via collective agreement, collective understanding via individual achievement, how do you make an impact? What kind of impact are you making? For whom is that impact useful? You’re just using the word impact as if somehow magically, that’s some sort of magic wand that you wave over your company and say, Oh, yeah, we’re an impact place. So what so is every used car place? The trick is to the used car place, the impact goes to the salesperson and the owner, who are trying to pull as much money out of your pockets as humanly possible, right? There you go. They can still call it impact because hey, they make more money that’s really impactful to them. So that’s the thing. The fact that you can use a word like impact doesn’t mean that’s actually useful. It doesn’t mean you’re actually describing anything of value. You’re, you’re telling a story, you’re building a narrative, you’re being useful. The fact that you can use a word like impact is simply a matter of you have a dictionary and a thesaurus and you used it can graduate flippin later.

When you say you’re a company that makes impact, and you try to tell the story of it, the story itself is how you’re leveraging emotion. It’s how you’re leveraging, feeling, right? If you tell a story, you know, you’ve seen the bit where there’s a story where someone had some short clips of actors staring off in the middle distance, and they interspersed that with different other pictures like food, empty plate, or an old woman or a young woman, or you know, these different things. And because you intersperse these things, people would say, Oh, these actors are amazing. You can tell because, you know, when they’re when they’re staring off in the middle of distance, they’re thinking about food.

Why? Well, because there’s, there’s the you just saw an empty plate. And that says, I’m trying to tell you what this person is trying to feel but the truth is, that person is not thinking anything in particular, they’re just staring off in the middle distance. They might be thinking about lunch, but they might also be thinking about anything a you know, where they’re going to get lunch or where they’re going to get their car fixed or where They’re gonna, you know, spend the night where they’re going for their birthday or whatever it is. But they’re they, their task was to just stare off in the middle of the distance. And the fact that you can wrap that blank stare with other images created emotions. And that’s what’s amazing about how humans brains works. We try to stitch together we’re looking for these narratives and stories and patterns to say, I understand what this is about.

So let’s tie that back a little bit, because I think I went a little bit far afield. So this idea that you say you’re all about impact means and I hate to be the one to tell you this. Nothing. It means absolutely nothing. Anybody can say they’re in bed. Literally. The words are free, right? No one’s charging you to use the words. Just say we make an impact our employees make an impact or we make an impact on our employees lives. We make an impact in our customers lives, we make an impact on our investors lives impact impact impact impact to the point where the word suddenly loses meaning as it has to me quite some time ago.

Okay. You used it. Congratulations. Does that mean you have an employer Does that mean that’s influenced the employer brain? Does that mean that’s influenced the perception of how people see you? Okay, hold on. Let me be the one to tell you this one. Nope. Okay, so I’m sorry, I’m bum bum burst and bubbles here. The fact that you say it doesn’t mean anything, the fact that you say and I’ve used this joke a lot. If I tell you I’m funny, but you’re not laughing. Am I funny? If I tell you I’m not racist, but you think I might be racist? Am I or am I not guess what I must be because you think it because of experiences because of intonations because of words I use because of language choices, all sorts of reasons. You might kind of put together a pattern like this person is funny or this person is racist, or this person is whatever. You create that pattern that perception, that’s your job as the perceiver to create the perception as the person who’s projecting all that out. I have influence over that perception. I can say funny jokes to make you laugh. I can not tell racist jokes to make you think that I’m a racist. There’s all sorts, you know, in among a million other things there. But I can only do so much in the end you as the perceiver of all this information or creating that perception, I can give you more or less to try and influence it. But that’s as far as I can go.

One of the ways and powerful ways probably the most powerful way I can really influence your sense of perception is to use narrative and story to create an emotional impact. If I talk about this, amazingly, this amazing story where it starts with hold my beer, and I you know, hey, you want to see me do something funny and you want to see this and this could be a thing, blah, blah, blah, blah. And at the end of it, I can’t believe it the cop and I had a beer right? There’s that you know, you tell an amazing story. At the end there’s a kind of huge payoff, or you know, you drop a line like and that’s how I that’s how I got into college right like, crazy story. You know, that just kind of weaves around. It isn’t particularly funny, but if you drop a and that’s how I got into college, That’s how I met my first wife. And that’s why I can never have kids or whatever that kind of pay out pay off punch line is that narrative I created an emotion I created suspense create an idea of what could he be doing? Why would he be doing this? Oh my god that can’t end well. And then it turns out it ends up perfectly or it ends up horribly, whatever. That’s creating in you and emotion.

Using narrative and using narrative is probably the most effective way of creating that emotion. So when I think about employer brand and how people do it wrong, what I see are people telling me what their employer brand is without trying to think of how what am I trying to make the reader feel other than perhaps believe these words I’ve just used which is a pretty crappy bar is a pretty crappy set of expectations are pretty crappy KPI you know, believe that these words are true. That’s tough.

Go look at any kind of marketing. Go look at any commercial, you know, yeah. Whether it’s the shamwow, the Shammy people who want you to believe that if you use that you can pretty much soak up a bathtub full of water and a sheet, a sheet the size of a washcloth, or whatever the hell there is. They just want you to believe that is magical. They just want you to think that there’s something happening. And they got a guy who’s going crazy and trying to explain this, and he’s using super machine language. He’s super super animated. Wow, it’s amazing. He’s trying to make you feel amazed. He’s trying to create an emotion.

Beer commercials with Clydesdales that are saving people or making people old people and lonely people feel connected to the world they’re trying to use narrative to create an emotion to sell flippin crappy beer. What? Think of other things that pizza companies they’re trying to create laughter they’re trying to tell a joke like little caesars for those of you in the States. All their commercials are the goofiest stupidest semi funniest but whatever kind of they are the ultimate in dad joke level humor, right? They’re trying to get To feel amusement, ie feel emotion so that you feel positive about their brand. That’s really what it is. Because if you feel positive about the brand, maybe you’ll buy an extra pizza now and then, and that’s the win. So when you say you have a strong employer brand, because you keep saying the same words over and over again, I’m going to go ahead and stop.

You say No, you don’t. You don’t have any kind of strong employer brand. What you have is a broadcast system that may be active, but nobody’s listening or no one’s believing or no one’s internalizing, or no one’s considering it. It’s not driving action, at which point I’d say you’re doing a pretty crap job. Right? The fact that you can say impact 7000 times doesn’t mean anybody believe working there creates impact for themselves, or the impact that they care about. But you can create an emotion you can say, look, hospitals are easy, so let’s just do them right off the bat. And then you know, the Joker for me is always in I talked to people who are in the hospital side, I say, look, you can’t Make your employer brand about how you save lives because if there’s a hospital there’s brand is not about how they save lives. I want to meet that brand if you can’t reverse it and have it make any kind of sense it doesn’t exist. So you can’t have a brand and hospital brand. It’s all about we care about saving lives more than other hospitals less than other hospitals the same as other hospitals at which point I want to ask questions about differentiation. Of course your brand is now pretty much worthless.

But you can say and I’ve seen this I wish I can remember exactly where but I’ve seen that a hospital trying to recruit nurses what they did is they made an ad showing nurses shoes and let’s be fair, nurses do nothing but stand and walk all day. So their shoes are pretty much toast. They’re flipping through them every month or so where you know I might buy a new pair of shoes every six to 12 months. They’re buying shoes on a monthly basis. Just because they were thrown because they they’re hard on their feet right they’re very tough on them.

That’s the job. The the ad or the post a camera he was probably post was literally just a paper have shoes pair of sneakers that had been worn down to nubs. They probably felt like I had owned them for years and years and years. And the caption below them was, I bought these shoes renew two weeks ago. That’s the kind of work we do here. And to me, you’re creating an emotional connection by trying to tell an untold story, right? You’re kind of putting a thread of a narrative in there, and you’re allowing me to create my own narrative. You’re allowing me to decide what that narrative is, and because you’re not spelling it out, and because the visual is so crystal clear, and crystal obvious that needs no interpretation.

The fact that you have a picture and just a handful of words like the issues were new two weeks ago, tells me everything and it’s not just telling me everything, it creates emotion. Wow. These nurses really care. Wow, these nurses work really hard. Wow, they’re really hard. Yeah, I guess that makes sense. They are on their feet all day. Yes, of course. They go through shoes. Pretty hard. Pretty fast, I get it, oh, this makes sense. And suddenly, I have created an emotional connection to your brand. Whereas telling me, our nurses work really hard wouldn’t would have just rolled off my brain like water off a duck’s back, creating an emotion creating a narrative. And by the way, those two things are the same.

But focusing on what do you want people to feel is a positive element, your employer brand, it’s a it’s a very important and purposeful important element of your brand. But at the same time, there’s another way to use emotion to think through your employer brand challenges, and that is, what does it feel like to work here? Now this is by focusing on what it feels like to work here. you’re solving the challenge of telling people what’s it like to work here? Because what’s it like, is going to be different for a lot of different people, right? If you say, what’s it like it’s well you’re stuck at your desk all day, and but you get to write a lot of emails and you get to make a lot of phone calls and video calls. And you talk to clients all day and you get to solve their problems. Great. That is a true statement for an in house sales rep. Right? Or a customer support system or a customer excellence or customer. We know one of those people who are there to make sure that the customers are getting the value out of the product.

Is that what the developers do? Well, maybe they stare at code all day, and he looks at computer but they’re spending all their time talking to clients are they spending all their time engaging with other people are they generally heads down coding things. So suddenly, the way you’ve described the job for one person negates the job for another person, and that’s pretty standard, right? If you try to get to, you know, we want to get granular we want to get modular, we want to try and be as specific about what it’s like to work here as to as many people as you can. But the truth is, you can only go so far. And frankly, the farther you go, the harder it is. You can you will be set, you’re setting yourself up for a task, where you’re trying to create 7000 employer brands each for different roles and different teams and whatnot. But if you try to create employer brand that focuses on what does it feel like to work here? You’re in a different boat, you’re in a different kind of situation and potentially a much more interesting one. So for example, let’s say you’re talking about an airline and I say it because I just had to spend some time on an airplane. And I gotta do another trip a week. And Gosh, any news out there about why it’s not fun to travel lately? Anybody? Did I miss something in the news? No? Okay, cool. Not at all stressful.

But if you want to talk about an airline, okay, let’s talk about the different roles. You’ve got, obviously, pilots, you’ve got obviously flight attendants, you’ve got obviously ground crew, you’ve got obviously the people who take your tickets and kind of manage stuff from the gate. You’ve got people who manage the IT systems to make sure that when you buy a seat, the seat is actually yours and you get to show up the logistics people who are making sure and finding the most efficient manner by which they make sure which of the routes we want to take. And how do we move planes around right you’ve noticed that one thing where one plane one pilot gets sick and the ripple effect is just brutal because because they missed one flight that flight that’s whatever the next leg of that flight was going to be gets canceled and so on and so forth. And suddenly like this one pilot got sick. How does it ruin 20 different flights because the ripple effect is is so painful.

You’ve got leadership, you’ve got marketing, you’ve got more logistics in terms of things like how do you make sure every plane has all the Diet Coke it needs How do you make sure every plane has all the little cookies that it needs? How do you make sure the cleaning crew is there and ready to go the second the plane disembark so that you can turn that thing around faster because a five minute turnaround time difference, makes money, money, money for that play airline, so many different kinds of jobs. So when you say what’s it feel like to work here? Even knowing that some of those roles might be outsourced to third parties like cleaning crews? I’m pretty sure Based on the, you know, last time I look, they have different company names on the backs of their jackets. I think they’re outsourced. But at the same time, what’s it like to work there? Because the difference between just a pilot and a flight attendant and a gate crew, it’s going to be radically different.

But if you talk about what’s it feel like to serve your customers to be able to go from place to place to meet new people, to engage with new people, to help people get to weddings, and help people get to funerals and help people get to meetings and help people go on vacation and help people do all of these things? What does that feel like? Well, it’s a kind of satisfaction. Now, there’s a problem here because if I say, okay, they feel people feel satisfied. Well, that’s not your employer brand, correct? Correct. Correct. Correct.

Because if I tried to tell you people you know, what’s it feel like to work? you’re satisfied that that’s, that’s the worst example of what you could say cuz everybody would say, What are you talking about? You’re full of crap anymore. But he can say that just like impact is just a word it doesn’t mean anything correct. But if you as the employer branding person, start to show how the pilot feels about working there, what it feels like to to do the hours they have to put in and do the paperwork of what why you know, and you know, that they need to do in order to do their jobs. I can imagine that you know, flying a plane is a lot more more prep and paperwork than actually moving the joystick of the plane, whatever the whatever that thing and the the stick the thing that turns the plane, I don’t know much about plants. right because mostly it’s a you know, you kind of set a heading you hit your autopilot, you kind of just keep an eye on stuff.

Make sure you make minor adjustments as weather changes or as situations change, but you’re not holding the stick the whole time. That’s, you know, this isn’t the 1950s they do more work in paperwork. They do more work in prep work and checks and checklists to make sure everything is right and filling out paperwork after the fact that’s their job, but how does it make them feel? And if you realize that what they feel is feeling good about getting the job done that they’re doing it safely, they’re doing it on time that they’re achieving the goals they set out for themselves and they feel good about that. Okay, great. That’s great. tell that story. Now go tell the story of the flight attendant, who, at one point literally had to put the paddles on a passenger who was having a heart attack. Talk tell the story of the flight attendant who Gosh, I don’t know you know, who feels good about making sure they’re passengers who are going through a painful process that is having to sit in a plane for hours at a time with other human beings get to breathe on them and touch them and and push their seat backs right in front of them and you know, all the other hornist that is modern day travel and say look, I’m trying to put as good a face on this as possible. I’m trying to make this as pleasant as humanly possible. That’s my job and how that makes me feel is satisfied.

Hmm. Interesting. You have the pilot telling a story, and how do they feel? How does it feel to work? They’re satisfied great pride and work and all that good stuff. How does it feel for a flight attendant, well satisfied? Oh, wow, you’re creating parallel senses of what it’s like to work there. Now if you can do that for the gate crew, and you can do that for the ground crew, and you can do that for the logisticians, and you can do that for other teams, suddenly, your employer brand starts to feel strong, and you start to say,

Okay, well, how does it feel to work at this airline, people here have a satisfaction doing a job well done. Now, let’s say they’re hiring a marketer and the employer brand or never got around to doing that story for marketing. So the marketer who is applying for jobs and looking for jobs, sees all these stories, and none of them are about them. But they see a parallelism and alignment of stories and what they’re trying to tell and what does it feel like to work there? How likely is it that the marketer thinks to themselves I bet this is a place where I could feel satisfied, even though you didn’t tell them that. Isn’t that interesting?

Here is a story that you did not tell to an audience that you did not speak to. And suddenly they’re creating exactly the emotion you want them to feel. Because you instead of trying to tell them one on one and create retail level conversations, this is what it’s like to work here. This is how you’re going to spend your day. This is why you like to work here. This is what your boss is going to be, which is great. That level of specificity is always really good and powerful and useful. But of course, some companies and companies have size that’s really hard to do. So what if instead of trying to tell people what it’s like, hour by hour, week, by week, minute by minute, day by day, what it’s like to work there, talk about what it feels like to work there, because that emotion can connect and grab people that you didn’t tell stories about. Isn’t that really interesting? I think that’s really interesting.

So anyway, that’s what I do for a living. I look at books and I Read things and I listen to things. And I go, that’s interesting. And I bring them to you. So there you go. My job is done. Yeah.

So there you go. Thanks so much for listening. Thanks so much for sharing. I appreciate it. As always, let me know if you have any questions if you want to challenge me or just ask questions or get clarification or maybe I made no sense that’s happened before. Twitter, the website, LinkedIn, all that good stuff. Otherwise, grab me for 15 minutes and ask me questions. I’d love to help.